The comments made by Duncan Baker, the Conservative MP for North Norfolk, on Twitter on 21 October 2022.
As the country faces some incredibly difficult financial challenges, Rishi [Sunak] is clearly the best person suited to deal with them.
Guiding us through these times makes him the right person not just for the party but more importantly for the country right now.
The comments made by Gillian Keegan, the Conservative MP for Chichester, on Twitter on 21 October 2022.
Choosing our next leader is a huge responsibility. The country faces economic challenges & serious times call for serious leadership. We need a Prime Minister with proven credibility & the right skills, experience & judgement. That’s why I am backing Rishi Sunak to be our next PM.
The comments made by Anne-Marie Trevelyan, the Conservative MP for Berwick-upon-Tweed, on Twitter on 21 October 2022.
I have worked closely with Boris Johnson for many years. He can continue to deliver for the country and already has a mandate. It’s time to #bringbackboris.
The speech made by Dean Russell, the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy, in the House of Commons on 21 October 2022.
It is an absolute pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Bradford East (Imran Hussain). I thank him for his contribution and his questions, which I will do my best to cover. If I do not, hopefully, we can cover them separately as we move forward.
I truly thank the hon. and gallant Member for Barnsley Central (Dan Jarvis) for bringing this important legislation forward. I thank, too, all of the Members who have spoken on this important matter today, including: the hon. Members for North East Fife (Wendy Chamberlain), for Hampstead and Kilburn (Tulip Siddiq), my hon. Friends the Members for West Bromwich West (Shaun Bailey) and for Cities of London and Westminster (Nickie Aiken), my right hon. Friend the Member for Beckenham (Bob Stewart), with his incredibly powerful and moving comments, my hon. Friend the Member for Ashfield (Lee Anderson), my right hon. Friend the Member for Chipping Barnet (Theresa Villiers), and the hon. Member for Motherwell and Wishaw (Marion Fellows). I will come to some of the key points as I progress with my speech.
I wish to echo the thanks of the hon. Member for Barnsley Central to my predecessors. I often say that anyone who takes on these roles stands on the shoulders of giants. I am very fortunate to be building on the work of my hon. Friend the Member for Loughborough (Jane Hunt), whose work has been phenomenal, and my hon. Friend the Member for Sutton and Cheam (Paul Scully), with whom I have worked closely and whose work has been even more phenomenal in helping us get to this point today.
My right hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Beckenham and my right hon. Friend the Member for Chipping Barnet both predicted what I am about to say: I am pleased to confirm that the Government support the Bill. I look forward to working with the hon. Member for Barnsley Central in Committee. We have talked a lot about recruitment; he did an amazing job of recruiting many members to his Committee—hopefully more women than men, although I was not keeping count.
I am pleased to support the Bill from a personal perspective. I am the father to an inspirational daughter; the husband to an incredible and smart wife; the son to a loving and hardworking mother; my sister is a cancer survivor and has dealt with challenges with such kindness and strength; and I am an uncle to beautiful nieces. The Bill is trying to support women and girls for the future to feel true equality in their lives and in the workplace. It certainly signals that to them all.
The Bill is another example of how Parliament works so well together. When we support and challenge each other, we get the best legislation and we show the country that we are all compassionate and believe in getting the legislation right. That often means that things take a bit more time, but the trouble is the very small number of unscrupulous businesses. We heard moving comments from the hon. Member for Motherwell and Wishaw (Marion Fellows) about how when people think they can get away with things, sadly they do, and in some of the worst instances. Most businesses are honourable and do the right thing, but we have to ensure that there are no holes in the legislation, because those who want to get around doing the right thing will always find those holes. It is right that the legislation takes time and it is fabulous that we are discussing it.
I know what a crucial issue pregnancy and maternity discrimination truly is and the pernicious effect that it can have on both the immediate and longer term prospects for women in work. More generally, it puts a drag on equality and productivity. We heard earlier about the challenges not just to the workplace and to the economy but to mental health. The Bill will make a difference not just in the workplace but at home, so that people truly have a work-life balance. That means not having to worry about things that they should not need to worry about.
Nickie Aiken
It is important to provide women who are pregnant or on maternity leave with workplace protections. Do women trying to get pregnant by undergoing fertility treatment deserve the same employment rights as those who get pregnant naturally?
Dean Russell
My hon. Friend has done incredible work on her private Member’s Bill. Officials and I are looking at it very closely. I applaud her for her work not just on that but generally. She is a staunch, hardworking Member for her constituents. That is why I am pleased to be here and to have taken on this important portfolio, for as long as it may last—hopefully years rather than days.
Irrespective of who is at the Dispatch Box, the Government are committed to ensuring that the UK is the best place in the world to work and grow a business. We need a strong and flexible labour market that supports participation and economic growth. Let me put on record why the Government support the legislation. When we talk about female economic empowerment, we tend to talk about positive facilitative policies: parental leave and pay, flexible working, women on boards and so on—policies looking to drive positive action to achieve better outcomes.
We are taking huge strides to deliver equal opportunities for women in the UK. They include mandatory pay gap reporting, the largest ever cash increase in the national living wage in 2022 and passing the landmark Domestic Abuse Act 2021. It is pleasing to see that nearly 2 million more women are in work since 2010. The number of women on FTSE 350 company boards is up by over 50% in just five years. The number of women in FTSE 100 company boardroom roles has jumped to 39% from 12.5% 10 years ago. There is a higher percentage of women on FTSE 350 company boards than ever before. As my hon. Friend the Member for West Bromwich West pointed out however, there are some very negative statistics that we need to address.
Shaun Bailey
I welcome my hon. Friend to his new position. When it comes to Ministers who should be in position, he is 1,000% one of them and I am so glad to see him in his place on the Front Bench. He has just pointed out that the statistics in other areas are not great: can he give a commitment that the Government are 100% determined to ensure that we get those stats up? The fact that in the legal profession only 28% of partners are women is not good enough. If 60% of employees are women but only 28% make partner, that is nowhere near enough.
Dean Russell
I thank my hon. Friend for his kind comments. Equality is not just for the sake of equality: it improves things on every level—the economy, the workplace, the challenge in boardrooms and many other areas. I was pleased to hear my hon. Friend mention that 80% of his office staff are women, because that is a powerful example of how we in this place can lead from the front. We talked earlier about mental health. I have noticed in the past few years how people here have talked much more about mental health, and now it is talked about much more in the workplace and in society. That is a really important example of this House leading. I remember a few years ago in 2015 when I had a small role in helping to support, in a professional capacity, a report by the all-party parliamentary group on women in Parliament. It looked at how we could encourage more women into the workplace and, in particular, more women into politics. We need to have that at the front of our minds at all times.
On International Women’s Day in March this year, we announced a package of initiatives to help to open up more opportunities to women and to boost the post-pandemic recovery, including by promoting transparency and fairness in pay, ending employers asking about salary history, and supporting women who want to return to the science, technology, engineering and maths workforce. We have an extensive suite of parental leave and pay rights. Parents have access to a range of leave and pay entitlements in a child’s first year, giving working families more choice and flexibility about who cares for their child and when. Our maternity leave entitlement is also generous. To qualifying employed women we offer 52 weeks of maternity leave, of which 39 are paid, which is three times more than the EU minimum requirement. For self-employed women and those who are not eligible for statutory maternity pay, maternity allowance may be available. Both maternity payments are designed to provide a measure of financial security, to help women to stop working towards the end of their pregnancies and in the months after childbirth in the interests of their own and their babies’ health and wellbeing.
As well as the positive steps we can encourage or require employers to take, we need to clamp down on poor and inappropriate practices, such as waiting for a woman to return from maternity leave and for the current protected period to end, and then—terribly—making her redundant. That is just so wrong. We know that one of the key drivers of the gender pay gap is the time that women stay away from work. Ensuring that women are not needlessly forced out of the workplace is therefore an important way to tackle that inequality and maximise the economic contribution that women can make. As the hon. Member for Barnsley Central explained, the incidence of pregnancy and maternity discrimination, and the poor treatment of pregnant women and new mothers, is still far too high. That is unacceptable, and why the Bill is so important.
My right hon. Friend the Member for Beckenham—I cannot see him in his place but I am sure he will be listening elsewhere—asked whether the Government will produce guidance on pregnancy and maternity discrimination advisory boards. I will take that back to the Department, but there will be work to ensure that information is communicated far and wide so that both employers and employees are aware of those rights.
The hon. Member for Barnsley Central and others mentioned the German model. I am conscious that there is always a question whether we can push further and faster and do more. I definitely take his comments on board, but the Government do not think that it is right to follow the German model; I will happily follow up separately with specific details about why we do not agree with going that far. However, there is merit in how the Bill takes definite strides in that direction.
The personal stories told today have been really powerful. Emily and Natasha have been mentioned; my condolences and thoughts are with them after the challenges that they have faced. I hope that the hon. and gallant Member’s work today will ensure that what happened to them is not repeated. The hon. Member for Hampstead and Kilburn spoke about the discrimination during pregnancy that her friends faced, which was a really powerful way of bringing to life why the Bill is so important.
My hon. Friend the Member for West Bromwich West asked about cultural change. As he alluded to in his intervention just now, this is a societal thing. We can change things through legislation, but it is often much better to ensure that we change things in society. The Bill should be the backstop rather than being front and centre for businesses—they should just do the right thing.
My hon. Friend the Member for Loughborough did an excellent job, both as my predecessor and in her comments today. I commend her for ensuring that we have moved in the right direction with the Bill. As the hon. Member for Bradford East said, getting collaboration around the table on amendments—never mind getting a private Member’s Bill agreed by the Government—is an immense achievement, and my predecessor has kept the Bill on the table.
My hon. Friend the Member for Cities of London and Westminster made the point that it is so essential to ensure that women can continue to pursue their career. Nobody should feel that wanting to have a family should end their career. That should never be the situation in the 21st century, or any century. We need to go full force on this.
My right hon. Friend the Member for Chipping Barnet spoke about economic activity. She made the point that this is not just about being nice and doing the right thing; it has a substantial impact on the bottom line and on this country’s economy.
My right hon. Friend the Member for Ashfield—I should call him my hon. Friend, but I am sure he will be my right hon. Friend at some point; he is always right honourable to me—was so eloquent, as always. He always hits the nail on the head. He made the important point that if we retain women we can also navigate the challenges of skills shortages. That is so important, especially when we consider that there are almost 1 million roles available. Let us make sure that we promote all opportunities to all people.
The hon. Member for Motherwell and Wishaw spoke so eloquently about the challenges that she faced many decades ago. Hopefully, many of them have since been addressed in legislation, but the Bill will take things even further.
I note the point that the hon. Member for Bradford East raised about tribunal time limits. The Government recognise that there are concerns that in certain circumstances the three-month time limit for bringing Equality Act-based cases to tribunal may not feel long enough. In July 2019 we ran a public consultation on whether the limit should be extended; the positive impact that such a change could have is clear from the responses that we received. The Government response, which was published in July 2021, committed to
“look closely at extending the time limit for bringing Equality Act 2010 based cases to the employment tribunal”.
We continue to consider the evidence for doing so, and we understand the positive impact that it will ultimately have.
In conclusion, these measures will provide invaluable support and protection for parents during what should be an exciting and joyous time—pregnancy and the start of their child’s life—as they juggle work and caring responsibilities.
The extension of MAPLE to pregnancy in a period of return to work is backed by evidence and analysis. The Government’s and the EHRC’s research, and the work of the Women and Equalities Committee and others, have established that there is a clear need for further work to help parents at these times. We must take steps to tackle the discrimination and poor treatment that some undoubtedly face.
The Government are pleased to support the Bill. It is wholly in line with our ongoing commitment to support workers and build a high-skilled, high-productivity, high-wage economy. We look forward to continuing to work with the hon. Member for Barnsley Central and, of course, all the new Committee members who are in the Chamber today to support the Bill.
Dan Jarvis
With the leave of the House, I will briefly respond to what has been an extremely useful and constructive debate, at the end of what, according to any metric, has been quite a long week in this place.
There have been some outstanding contributions from Members today. Everyone who spoke added real value to the debate, and I am incredibly grateful to all of them. I also thank the EHRC, the TUC, the Royal College of Midwives, Unison, the Fawcett Society and the Chartered Institute of Personnel and Development, not just for their invaluable support for the Bill but for the important work that they do. Let me, in particular, thank the Minister, who has been remarkably helpful, as was the previous Minister, as was the shadow Minister, and as have been the officials at the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy, the Clerks, and my very small team in Parliament, Richard Mitchell and Alex Foy, for all the hard work that has gone into the Bill.
As I have said, this has been an extremely useful debate. A huge number of important points have been made—too many to mention. I think it has been acknowledged that the Bill is timely. We all know that our constituents are facing a cost of living crisis, so this is the right moment at which to introduce such legislation. We should of course recognise the pain and suffering of those who have had to endure the hardship of unfair dismissal.
There has been general agreement on the fact that raising a family is a difficult, though important, job, but it is made much more difficult when people have to face discrimination in the workplace. I pay tribute to all who have been fighting that discrimination, including the extraordinary women who are fighting for justice in the courts. I also pay tribute to organisations such as Pregnant Then Screwed and Maternity Action for their dedicated work to protect and enhance the rights of pregnant women.
Whatever happens today, it will still be too late for Emily, Natasha and Sarah, but, as the Minister rightly said a moment ago, their contribution to this process has been incredibly valuable. I hope that they, and all the other people who have been affected, will take some comfort from knowing that they have contributed to—hopefully—a change in the law that will help to give more than 50,000 women a year the security of returning to their job after taking maternity leave. I ask the House to support the Bill.
Question put and agreed to.
Bill accordingly read a Second time; to stand committed to a Public Bill Committee (Standing Order No. 63).
Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)
Congratulations, Mr Jarvis. It has been a privilege for me to chair this particular debate, which has shown the House working at its very best.
The speech made by Imran Hussain, the Labour MP for Bradford East, in the House of Commons on 21 October 2022.
I welcome the Minister to his place and congratulate my hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Barnsley Central (Dan Jarvis) on bringing this important Bill to the House for debate. I know that he has worked closely with civil servants and previous Ministers in the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy to produce a workable Bill that can pass through the House.
The Bill before us has cross-party support, as was evident from the contributions. Those of us who have been in this place for any length of time know how difficult it is to get cross-party support—especially on a private Member’s Bill—so that is a testament to his hard work. I know that hon. Members across the House will join me in congratulating him on that.
May I also thank the previous Minister, the hon. Member for Loughborough (Jane Hunt), who is in her place, for the fantastic work she has done in this area? I know about that from conversations we have had. The right hon. Member for Basingstoke (Dame Maria Miller) is not in her place, but I understand that she has done a considerable amount of work in this area too. I think it is important to record that here.
I also want to pay thanks to other hon. Members to their contribution to the debate. Before I do, I have to say that I feel the Conservative Whips today will be very pleased with my hon. Friend the Member for Barnsley Central, as he has nominated a number of Members to take the somewhat burdensome task at Committee stage off their hands. He did it in a masterful way; I was sat admiring and learning how it was done.
I want to genuinely thank hon. Members from across the House. The hon. Member for Loughborough made the point that we are at our best when we come together. It is absolutely right that we come together on matters of huge importance. I thank the right hon. Member for Beckenham (Bob Stewart), who, in his customary style of combining humour, passion and some very serious points, spoke very well. We will all take away his fine point about women being far superior to men. It is certainly a point I would never disagree with. My hon. Friend the Member for Hampstead and Kilburn (Tulip Siddiq) spoke very passionately and gave real-life examples from her constituency that highlighted the broader impact on families and children.
The hon. Member for West Bromwich West (Shaun Bailey) gave a very passionate speech. He spoke from personal experience but also made the good point that good employers would actually welcome this legislation for all the right reasons. I have already thanked the hon. Member for Loughborough, but she rightly pointed out that this legislation extends to shared parental leave and adoption leave, and quite rightly so. The hon. Member for Cities of London and Westminster (Nickie Aiken) cited constituency examples and spoke of her personal experience, and I think everybody would agree about the importance of the cases she referenced.
The right hon. Member for Chipping Barnet (Theresa Villiers) quite rightly highlighted the benefits to employers as well as employees. She made a valuable point about the increased productivity that this measure will clearly bring. The hon. Member for Ashfield (Lee Anderson) made a pertinent point, the theme of which ran through all Members’ contributions: it is tragic that we are in the year 2022 and having to address this form of discrimination. It is shocking. Tragically, he is right that the discrimination in the workplace starts way before pregnancy. He highlighted many important points.
The hon. Member for Motherwell and Wishaw (Marion Fellows) cited a harrowing personal experience with the civil service. It was from the past, but she was visibly still quite moved, naturally and understandably. She gave equally moving examples from her constituency.
I am very grateful to all the hon. Members who have spoken today. They all spoke well and highlighted the importance of this Bill, which seeks to extend the protections from redundancy afforded to those taking maternity leave, adoption leave or shared parental leave beyond the date on which their leave ends, and to strengthen the protections afforded in pregnancy. As we have heard, these protections are desperately needed.
Maternity Action, Unison, the TUC and others have found that many employees are still being unfairly dismissed through redundancy. A number of hon. Members rightly cited reports such as the 2015 Equality and Human Rights Commission finding that 54,000 new mothers may be forced out of their job each year by being made compulsorily redundant or being treated so poorly that they have no option but to leave. Rather alarmingly, the Women and Equalities Committee found there is more discrimination and poor treatment of pregnant women and mothers at work than a decade ago, which should shock the House.
If those figures were not alarming enough, the campaign group Pregnant Then Screwed, which has been referenced by a number of Members, found in 2020 that more than one in 10 pregnant women had either been made redundant or expected to be made redundant, with almost two in three believing their pregnancy and motherhood was a factor. The TUC has reported that some women had been forced to take sick leave or unpaid leave because their workplace was no longer safe for them during their pregnancy and because their employer had refused to make the required adjustments.
As everyone who spoke before me said, it is frankly disgraceful that, in 2022, there is still discrimination against new mothers and mothers-to-be in the workplace, and that bad bosses feel they can flout employment law with impunity and without consequence or retribution. It could not be clearer that the existing protections for pregnant women fall far below the standard we should expect in this country.
With more than 15 million women aged 16 and over in employment between April and June 2022, with the female employment rate increasing to 72%—many of whom may choose to take periods of leave to have a family—and with the right to family life being a key human right, protecting those who choose to start and raise a family from unfair dismissal must be a key priority for this House and this Government. That is why Labour’s new deal for working people, published last year, makes a firm commitment to enshrine stronger protections in law to make it unlawful for an employer to dismiss a woman who is pregnant, while also extending statutory maternity and paternity leave.
I am pleased that not only has my hon. Friend the Member for Barnsley Central introduced this Bill but that the Government support his proposal, even if it has tragically taken us more than three years since the consultation to see this legislation. Although the Opposition Front Bench team support this Bill, we have a number of concerns about the shortcomings of Government policy that will weaken the Bill’s protections. The Minister will know from the tone of my speech that it is made in good faith. The strength of this debate shows the passion on both sides of the House to make this Bill as strong as possible and to afford as many protections as possible.
I am concerned about the Government’s plans to raise awareness among employers of the changes the Bill will make to regulations. Employers of all sizes must be made aware of their existing statutory responsibilities to those who are pregnant and those who are taking maternity, adoption or shared parental leave, even before we get to the strengthened protections that my hon. Friend proposes. As we have heard, many employers are flouting the current protections either deliberately, knowing they can get away with it, or inadvertently because they simply do not know what protections the law affords to pregnant women and those taking parental leave. It is clear that if we are to make progress, in my view, the Minister should have a hands-on approach to regulation and must ensure that employers are made aware. I hope the Minister is able to confirm today the actions that they will be taking to spread awareness among employers of existing and new protections—that point has been made by several Members today.
The issue of upholding and enforcing rights also takes me neatly on to my next point about the current backlog in employment tribunals. As has been pointed out, the Bill today and the regulations set to be made by the Minister will not apply a comprehensive blanket ban on making a pregnant woman or those on parental redundant, but only strengthen their chances of making a successful claim of unfair dismissal through the employment tribunal system. As anyone who has tried to hold their employer to account through the employment tribunal system for a breach of employment law will know, the situation is beyond dire. With a backlog of over half a million single and multiple claims, it can be up to two years after a claim is made that someone will have their case heard.
Faced with such a backlog, it is simply no wonder that such a high proportion of people withdraw their claims. If the Minister intends for the protections afforded by the Bill and forthcoming regulations, he must tackle that backlog as a matter of immediate priority.
Those made redundant and unfairly dismissed from their employment while pregnant or on parental must also have much greater flexibility in making an employment tribunal claim. That is why the Opposition’s new deal for working people proposes extending the time limit on bringing an employment tribunal claim so that no one is forced into making a hasty claim to a tribunal before allowing ACAS and their trade union to reach a settlement with their employer, so that anyone who has recently had a child does not have to face the additional pressures of making a claim in those hectic first three months when, as everyone will agree, caring for their child comes before their own wellbeing.
As has been pointed out, the Bill does not propose imposing a blanket ban on redundancies during the new extended period that the Minister must define in secondary legislation. That leaves real concerns that it will not go far enough in stopping discrimination against pregnant women in the workplace and those on parental leave, nor sufficiently protect them from redundancy. There are concerns that it will not be clear enough to employers.
As the Minister knows, and as was pointed out by my hon. Friend the Member for Barnsley Central, the German model offers a clear and pragmatic standard that the UK can adopt and adjust. My hon. Friend has gone through the German model point for point, so I do not seek to repeat that; it is on the record and Members were here when he made those points. In all sincerity, I would be grateful for a response from the Minister as to why the Government cannot adopt that model, beyond claiming that it would be too difficult to implement.
The qualifying period to obtain the additional protection offered after a period of leave is also a worry. That point, as I understand it, has not been made here today, but I believe it is equally important, as those most in need of protection are those who are forced to tragically curtail their leave before the sixth week because of personal, often financial, circumstance. These individuals should not be excluded from the extended protections being offered because of their circumstances and their need to curtail their leave. I hope the Minister will look again at this issue when regulations bringing it into effect are being drafted.
Finally, I wish to raise my concerns around the legislation itself. Although the Bill is the first step in introducing stronger protections for those on parental leave, the journey culminates in the Secretary of State making regulations that apply and specify the protections, and, as far as I can see, there is nothing compelling him to introduce these regulations by a certain date. Having covered this brief for some time, I am more than a little used to the Government promising action and, tragically, not following through on many important issues. For example, the ethnicity pay gap reporting keeps getting kicked into the long grass, and the legislation that mysteriously enters into the “in due course” world never seems to come back.
Tragically, some private Members’ Bills rarely make it on to the statute book because the Government refuse to make time for them in Committee. I therefore hope the Minister will confirm the date for the Bill to pass through its Committee stage. I know that there may a provisional date, but it would be nice to have that confirmation.
All these concerns could have been addressed if the Government had only introduced and passed an employment Bill, as they said they would almost three years ago. It was first announced in the Queen’s Speech in 2019 and then pushed back to a point “in due course”—that seems to be when so many of the plans from the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy will take place—and now seemingly has been scrapped, with no mention of it in the Queen’s Speech earlier this year. An employment Bill would have provided a means for the Government to strengthen protections for pregnant women and those on parental leave years ago, as well as so much more.
In closing, I want to be clear that we absolutely support the Bill before us today and applaud the work that has been done by my hon. Friend the Member for Barnsley Central. Again, I thank hon. Members from the across the House for the spirit in which this debate has been conducted today and for their powerful contributions. I hope, given the strength of feeling and the sincerity with which we have all spoken today, the Minister will look at making concessions with regards to the points that I have raised, particularly around ensuring that the regulations that are made can be upheld and enforced.
The speech made by Marion Fellows, the SNP MP for Motherwell and Wishaw, in the House of Commons on 21 October 2022.
I never thought I would hear myself say the words, but it is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Ashfield (Lee Anderson). It is always good when there is such consensus across the Chamber on Fridays in this place, and I think it is something we could perhaps do with a little more of at other times of the week.
I congratulate the hon. and gallant Member for Barnsley Central (Dan Jarvis) on his success in the ballot to secure the opportunity to introduce a private Member’s Bill. I admit I am jealous, but I really want to commend him for the choice of subject, especially given the fact, as the hon. Member for Hampstead and Kilburn (Tulip Siddiq) said, that he as a man is introducing this Bill.
I also commend the right hon. Member for Basingstoke (Dame Maria Miller), who has been congratulated by hon. Members on both sides of the Chamber, for all her previous work to bring forward a similar Bill. I mention my hon. Friend the Member for East Dunbartonshire (Amy Callaghan), who raised the matter in a Westminster Hall debate last year, and my hon. Friend the Member for Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock (Allan Dorans), who had hoped to be here today but unfortunately cannot be. I thank him for giving me some good pointers for my speech. I commend the work of Maternity Action, the maternity rights charity, for its work to advance women’s rights during pregnancy for many years.
For far too long, women have been discriminated against in many ways—in society generally, in employment particularly and when pregnant specifically. Looking round the Chamber, I can confidently say that I am the oldest woman here. When I was pregnant with my first child in 1974, I was discriminated against in the most horrendous way. I found out that I was pregnant about a month before I was due to start a job in the civil service setting up jobcentres on the east coast of Scotland. The arrangement was that I had to phone and say that I was ready to start, so I had a very pleasant chat with someone—I cannot remember the details; it was a long time ago—and mentioned in the conversation that I was pregnant. They literally said, “Goodbye,” and put the phone down, and I never heard from the civil service again. That was standard operating procedure in those days; the civil service did not do anything wrong that I could chase them up in law for or anything. That was just the end of what might have been a wonderful civil service career.
When I have told that story to younger people, such as my daughters, my daughters-in-law and my students when I taught at West Lothian College, I got the same gasp that I just heard in the Chamber. We have moved on—my daughter and my two wonderful daughters-in-law have never experienced anything like that—but I am acutely aware of the cultural change that is necessary in this area. Although there are some laws that prohibit direct discrimination against women, there needs to be cultural change to bring people on board.
I would like to think that with this private Member’s Bill and the Government’s support, we are working our way towards eliminating another form of discrimination against women, especially when they are pregnant. They are vulnerable enough. My daughter is pregnant at the moment and I am pleased to say that she is in secure employment and is unlikely to face that kind of pressure. The Bill is an important step towards achieving that and providing protection for pregnant women against them being treated less favourably than men in similar circumstances—well, there will not be a similar circumstance for men.
At this point, I must say that I agree entirely with the right hon. and gallant Member for Beckenham (Bob Stewart). In my first public speaking contest—in the days when we talked about sexual equality—I gave a speech saying that I did not want to be equal to men because I thought that women were much better. I have not changed my mind much about that, and it is nice that he has the same view on the matter. It is important to recognise that many hon. Members, some of whom I have mentioned, have supported this work. The cross-party basis on which the Bill is being debated is a wonderful demonstration of how, if we pull together, we can make things better for our constituents and others across the United Kingdom.
In 2015, the Equality and Human Rights Commission published research, some of which we have heard about already today, showing that one in 20 new mothers are made redundant during pregnancy or maternity leave or on their return to work. That shocking statistic reveals a disturbing level of disregard on the part of some employers for the needs of women. The following year, the Taylor review into modern working practices highlighted further research confirming that the majority of employers expressed a wish and willingness to support pregnant women and new mothers, and the report commented favourably on the finding that more than 80% of employers felt it was in their interest to support pregnant women and new mothers.
However, women might be less enamoured of the finding that at least one in 10 employers, and possibly as many as one in five, are not willing to support pregnant women and new mothers. We have heard some terrible examples of that today. The detailed findings show a disturbing level of acceptance among employers and managers that discrimination against women on the basis of their decision to bear children or their caring responsibilities is acceptable.
All the following views were endorsed by at least one third of the employers and managers interviewed. Many of those interviewed claimed to have seen at least one pregnant woman “take advantage” of her pregnancy and regarded pregnancy as putting “an unnecessary cost burden” on the workplace. That is shocking, and it is a cultural attitude that we all must strive to change. Given that those attitudes and views are widely held among employers and managers, is it any wonder that pregnant women and new mothers are so widely discriminated against in the workplace?
Between employers and Governments, effective arrangements must be put in place to support women and their families through the potentially life-changing process of pregnancy and rearing children. However, under current arrangements women have enhanced protection from redundancy only until they return from maternity leave, and the evidence—some of which I have heard here today—is that that protection is not working. It means only that a woman on maternity leave can be made redundant, but must be offered an alternative job above anyone else being made redundant if another job exists, which can prove a very big caveat, and the current law does not stop employers using pregnancy as an excuse for a piece of cost cutting.
That is clearly demonstrated by the case of Jessica—not her real name—whose story was disclosed by the campaign group Pregnant Then Screwed. Jessica had a well-paid job, became pregnant and was made redundant on the day she was due to return from maternity leave. The day before she was due back, which was during lockdown, she received a text telling her not to go in to the office but to be available for a video call with a senior manager. During that call, she was told that she was being made redundant. She had been back at work for all of 30 minutes. She is convinced that the firm simply wanted to cut its staff budget and that, by going on maternity leave, she had unknowingly self-selected for redundancy. What a way to treat a member of staff—and what a welcome into the world for her child, with a family now burdened by unaffordable debt and forced to move out of their home, and a mother whose mental health and career were in tatters.
As an employee of the company, Jessica might have had some chance of arguing her case for discrimination, although the costs and hurdles associated with attempting that would put most people off. On the other hand, Mandy, whose case was highlighted by the Taylor review, had no chance of taking out a legal case, because legal protections in the UK are so heavily and deliberately weighted against workers who are not direct employees. Mandy had worked for a bank on a zero-hours contract for several months. However, when she informed her employer that she was pregnant, her hours were reduced to zero; in effect, she was summarily dismissed with no recourse. Mandy is one of those pregnant women and new mothers who have borne the brunt of the increasing casualisation of the UK workforce. She found out that employment status—whether as a direct employee, self-employed, or through other ways of employing people—is important because that dictates entitlement to key maternity and paternal rights. Those in the growing number of insecure forms of employment can find their rights greatly diminished, reducing or eliminating their entitlements to maternity and parental pay and leave, health and safety protection, time off for antenatal appointments, and rights to return to work.
I know that this is not covered by the Bill, but it must be highlighted. The “Insecure Labour” report produced in 2020 by Maternity Action spells out some of the implications of casualised or insecure work on women workers, pregnant women and new mothers. Heather Wakefield, the chair of Maternity Action said that the report
“paints a shocking picture, which requires swift and radical action by Government, employers and trade unions to halt the damaging impact of casualisation on the working lives and wellbeing of pregnant women and new mothers.”
These cases are not isolated incidents; we have heard plenty about that this year.
I commend the hon. Member for Barnsley Central. I think that the parts of his speech concerning German law were new to most of us, and they were really interesting and useful. I know that this private Member’s Bill does not go into that, but it can be a really good start. It is really important that we can look at improving working rights altogether, especially for women, but for everyone in the UK.
I am not an economist, and I do not really want to be, but it does not make economic sense for businesses to discard women who have huge skills and bring so much to the workforce. There is a real economic case for retaining members of staff—it has been proved over and over again—as they can be role models for other young women who want to come in and they can help businesses succeed. They are well worth retaining.
I do not think I need to say this, but, in case of doubt, I fully support the Bill and would be happy to serve on its Committee. As I have said, I applaud the hon. and gallant Member, and I thank everyone who has spoken so well and so passionately in the debate.
The speech made by Lee Anderson, the Conservative MP for Ashfield, in the House of Commons on 21 October 2022.
I do not normally come to this place on a Friday, because I normally have better things to do in my constituency, but this Bill is so important that I felt I had to be here today. I just cannot imagine what it is like to be a woman at work who gets the wonderful news that she is pregnant, goes home and tells her partner, “I’ve got some great news,” and they are very happy and tell their family, then the following day she may come home and say, “I’ve got some bad news: I’ve lost my job,” or, “My firm don’t want me any more; I’m being discriminated against.” To think that that happens in this day and age is absolutely shocking. I cannot imagine it.
As the law stands, employers cannot make mothers redundant while they are on maternity leave, but under this excellent Bill that protection will be extended through pregnancy and for six months after returning to work. That is brilliant. We do discriminate against women in this country—I know we do—and especially young women and young single parent women. I was a single parent for many years—17 years—with two children, but I did not come up against the barriers that women do. I know that, because when I went for a job, they never even asked me if I was a single parent; they assumed that I was just a man looking for a job, and I got the job. I know full well that when women go for a job, employers probe and poke their nose into business that, quite frankly, is not theirs. I know that employers look at those women and think, “She’s a single parent—she’s going to have time off. Her kids have got to go to school. They’re going to be ill. She might get pregnant again.” Those are the barriers that us men do not normally face.
The contributions today have all been outstanding, as have the interventions. I thank the hon. and gallant Member for Barnsley Central (Dan Jarvis) for bringing this Bill to the House, because it is so important. He once said:
“No one should be penalised for having a family, but pregnant women and new mums face grotesque levels of discrimination in the workplace.”
He is bang on. He went on to say:
“This bill will help tackle the appalling injustices they face. From the extortionate cost of childcare to difficulty in finding flexible hours, balancing family life with a job is already hard enough.”
That sums it up for me.
Nickie Aiken
My hon. Friend talked about the fact that men do not face the same questions when being interviewed for jobs. Given the fact that he is saying that and that the Bill is being introduced by a male Member of the House, does he agree that it is so important that men stand side by side with women, to ensure that women have workplace rights?
Lee Anderson
I completely agree with my hon. Friend. It is not right; men do not face these questions and this discrimination, and we forget that. It is, unfortunately, still a man’s world. I sometimes get slated for saying that, but it is—let us be honest. There are so many barriers for women in the workplace, in life and in general, and this is just another barrier that they have to come up against time and again. It is quite shocking that we are having this conversation in 2022, but we are here having it, and hopefully the Bill will be passed—I am sure it will—and will give the extra protection that women in this country need.
I just hope that there are plenty of women listening to this today who will know that we are on their side and are going to make changes, and can have that confidence. We have talked about women being sacked from the workplace because they are pregnant or may get pregnant, and the skilled workforce that employers lose through that. They are not only losing skilled workers and their potential to go on to be brilliant employees, but saying to the marketplace out there, “We don’t want you. You’re a woman, and we don’t want you working here.” How wrong is that, when 50% of the population in this country are women? I think we are getting close to that in this place—we are getting more and more women here—and rightly so. Why should women not work here and why should they not do all the top jobs? It is an absolute disgrace.
The most important job that women do on this earth is to have children. Without them, I would not be here. They have children and they do a fantastic job, but to balance that with having a career, running a home, being married or having a partner, or whatever they have to multitask. My right hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Beckenham (Bob Stewart) said he is not very good at multitasking—I can vouch for that because I have been in his office quite a few times this week, and he cannot multitask at all. Women play an incredibly important part in society.
Bob Stewart
I had to intervene on my very good friend, but I must say that I think I am seriously lucky to be a man. Frankly, I do not have to put up with all the rubbish that women sometimes have to go through, so I am very glad, and I think my hon. Friend would probably say the same, would he not?
Lee Anderson
I completely agree with my right hon. and gallant Friend, who makes a really good point.
We know this happens: the majority of single parents in this country are ladies—women—and the hurdles they have to go over on a daily basis just to get by in life are hard enough. As a Government and as a society, we are trying to get more people back into the workplace. We have a skills shortage and there are lots of jobs in the economy—there are over 1 million vacancies, and we need to plug that gap—but what are we doing in such situations? We are putting up obstacles and barriers, as we sometimes do to disabled people, and making it so difficult for them to get back into the workplace.
We are missing a trick, and it is costing the economy. It is also costing employers, because if they are not recruiting or keeping in the workplace a lady who has had children or is on maternity leave, they are missing a trick. They are not upskilling that person, and if they are not retaining that person, they have to go out and recruit somebody else and spend thousands and thousands of pounds getting them up to speed when that asset—that employee—is already there. We need to stop missing that trick, use a little bit more common sense in the workplace, get behind our brilliant women in the UK, because they are brilliant, and give them all the support they need.
Theresa Villiers
Does my hon. Friend agree that it is particularly important to do this at a time when the cost of living is causing so much pressure on family finances? The last thing young families need at this point is for women to be forced out of the workplace because of unfair treatment.
Lee Anderson
My right hon. Friend is exactly right. As I say, we have an abundance of talented women in this country, and many of them are sitting in here today—I had to say that, did I not? We are putting up barriers and obstacles to these women, but they want to go out there, get into the workplace, earn good money, have good careers and contribute to society, and it is only right that we remove all these barriers in the workplace. So I welcome the Bill and wholeheartedly support it. I am going to shut up now because I have said enough, and I know there are one or two more speakers and the Minister wants to have his say about this.
The speech made by Theresa Villiers, the Conservative MP for Chipping Barnet, in the House of Commons on 21 October 2022.
It is a great privilege to follow some wonderful speeches, not least the one by my hon. Friend the Member for Cities of London and Westminster (Nickie Aiken). I very much support the Bill, which plugs an important gap in our employment protections, and I commend the hon. Member for Barnsley Central (Dan Jarvis) for introducing it. I welcome the cross-party support today and it is good to see the Minister in his place, ready to give the Government’s support.
The improvements in protection against redundancy for women who are pregnant or returning from maternity leave and people who are returning from shared parental leave or adoption leave are very welcome. We have heard from a number of colleagues about the unfairness that is still being perpetuated in the workplace. The Bill will help to resolve those matters. I believe that employment protection is one of the significant achievements of this Parliament. In this country, we have one of the most comprehensive systems of employment protection in the world. I am proud to have voted for a number of improvements to those protections over the years and I look forward to voting in favour of this one.
Ensuring fairness at work is one of the hallmarks of a modern economy and a civilised society. There is inevitably a power imbalance between employers and employees; there is economic power that rests with the employer. It is right for the legal system and the state to step in to help to rebalance that relationship and ensure that there are decent standards of treatment in the workplace. As many have pointed out, it is important to support young families and ensure that they are not subject to unfair treatment. The Bill provides a sensible compromise. I cannot see that the impact on employers would be excessive or negative. Indeed, as we have heard, ensuring high standards for women in the workplace potentially gives employers much better access to a wider labour pool, because it means that they are more attractive to talented and experienced women recruits, so there are real positives not just for employees, but for employers.
It is important to recall the point that I made in my intervention, which is that, in this country, we have a productivity problem. We have been grappling with that for the past 10 years. Part of the problem is due to people who are economically inactive. The Bill helps to ensure that women have the opportunities in the workplace that they deserve and that they are not forced back into economic inactivity. This is one of a range of measures that could help us to improve our productivity by getting the most from one of our greatest assets—women in the workplace and women in our population.
We can all be proud to be supporting another step in the road towards genuine gender equality. Like workplace fairness, this Parliament can be proud of the achievements of the past 100 years in remedying injustice dealt out to women. There is a debate about exactly when that started, but the Married Women’s Property Act 1882 was one of the first landmark decisions, which sought to remove the institutionalised discrimination and unfair treatment which, for millenniums, had characterised this country and others around the world. This Parliament can take some credit for many items of legislation over the years, which have, in essence, been dismantling the patriarchal systems that had been in place in previous centuries. The reality though is that there is still more to do, which is illustrated by the need to introduce a Bill such as this, and by the examples that we have heard today of the adversities that women continue to face.
I was particularly struck by the comments made by my hon. Friend the Member for Cities of London and Westminster that the career paths of men and women after women become mothers are still so dramatically different. It is very welcome that we have seen the gender pay gap close in many respects, but there are still hurdles that mothers are asked to jump over in relation to their careers that their male competitors simply are not. I am pleased that we are taking a step towards addressing that, but I am sure that these matters will return to Parliament in many different ways over the years to come. This task of securing a truly fair society, where men and women have equal opportunities and are treated equally, continues to adapt as new challenges become apparent.
I close by reflecting on the fact that we are tremendously lucky to live in a country that has respect for the rule of law, that ensures that workers are treated fairly and cannot be summarily dismissed and, in particular, cannot be lightly dismissed in the event of pregnancy, maternity leave, or the return from maternity leave. It is important, on an occasion such as this, to reflect on the fact that, in many parts of the world, women are not so lucky. One of the most notorious examples of this is, of course, Iran, where we see, on a daily basis, women and girls out protesting and demanding fair treatment. They continue to face institutionalised discrimination in terms of their right to travel, their consent to marriage and, in many areas, their right to decide what they wear.
I have found those protests inspiring. I hope that they do lead to democratic change in Iran. It is a place that has a shocking human rights record, and both men and women have suffered at the hands of a cruel regime.
This legislation is an illustration of the fact that we in this country take fairness seriously, we in this country believe that people should be treated fairly at work, and we in this country believe that women are entitled to equal treatment and equal opportunities. I commend this Bill to the House.
The speech made by Nickie Aiken, the Conservative MP for the Cities of London and Westminster, in the House of Commons on 21 October 2022.
I wholeheartedly welcome this Bill, and I feel privileged to speak in this debate and support the hon. Member for Barnsley Central (Dan Jarvis). I am proud that there are a number of hon. Members on this side of the House who—they may not accept it—are feminists, including my right hon. Friend the Member for Beckenham (Bob Stewart). It is important to recognise that this should not be about women’s rights; this is about wanting to ensure that our country supports all its employees, male or female. It is sad that in the 21st century we still have to introduce Bills such as this to give women protection in the workplace.
The Bill provides long overdue guarantees to pregnant women that they will not be dismissed during or shortly after pregnancy. It is also important to remember—we have not yet touched on this—that the Bill contains protection for those adopting children. A number of my gay friends have adopted children over recent years, and they will welcome this progressive Bill. This is not just about women, it is also about gay couples who are involved in adoption or a pregnancy, and it is important to highlight that—[Interruption.] I thank my right hon. Friend. Perhaps he would like to intervene.
Bob Stewart
I was just pointing out that a lot of my friends, male and female and married, also want to adopt. They have that right too, which is great.
Nickie Aiken
My right hon. Friend is absolutely right. This is about adoption, whether by a gay or heterosexual couple. The hon. Member for Barnsley Central is right to say that women should not have to choose between a career and raising a family, but unfortunately, far too many women are forced to make that choice. In 2016, a survey commissioned by BEIS found that three in four women experienced some form of pregnancy or maternity discrimination. As we have heard, 54,000 pregnant women a year are dismissed from their jobs. That eye-watering statistic should shame this country, and I hope that if passed, the Bill will go towards rectifying that shameful record. It is wholly unacceptable, but nevertheless we see that story across the board.
In my constituency I hear the same stories again and again from women who are trying to balance family planning with their career. As I said in an earlier intervention, I am sponsoring my own private Member’s Bill to secure employment rights for those undertaking fertility treatment. That Bill seeks similar outcomes to those sought by the hon. Member for Barnsley Central. After all, this is 2022 not 1922, and people need to feel comfortable to choose to have a child—or more than one child—whether that child is conceived naturally or through fertility treatment, and no matter where they work and without fear of their career being negatively impacted.
That fear is all too familiar for women across the country. There are women who are trying to make a career, but who are conscious that they have a limited time in which they can have a child. As I said earlier, when I had my first child aged 35, the average age of the woman in the hospital I was in was 39. Women now have careers and want to establish themselves in their 20s and into their 30s, and they then try to have a child.
Shaun Bailey
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. It is also about ensuring empowered women leadership. In a previous life she was the leader of Westminster City Council—if I may say so, probably the best leader we ever had. In this era of political comebacks, who knows? Perhaps another comeback is on the cards. We have to empower women leaders to encourage others. Given her experience as a woman in leadership, how does she feel about women leaders empowering women having children later in their career to find balance?
Nickie Aiken
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. I remember being pregnant with my first child, aged 35, holding down a full-time job and attempting to be elected to Westminster City Council. I was elected when seven months pregnant with my second child. Believe me, that was an interesting time. I do not think I would have been able to that without the support of my employer at the time Bradford & Bingley, and my group leader Sir Simon Milton, the late leader of Westminster City Council. I was very well supported but, sadly, not all women are. That is why this legislation is needed.
My hon. Friend is right to highlight that women in leadership roles—and men, but women in particular—must support women in the generations below. We have been fortunate to get to a certain place in our careers, and it is our duty as feminists and human beings to support women—and men—coming through their careers.
Tulip Siddiq
I applaud the hon. Lady for having been a councillor and leader while having children, because if I had had children while I was a councillor, I could not have done it, given the hours we were doing. On the fact that her employers were good at letting her take time off or working around her pregnancy, is the problem not that we rely so much on good will? It should not be based on good will; there needs to be legislative change to achieve equal opportunity for everyone. Does the hon. Lady want to comment on that?
Nickie Aiken
To be perfectly honest, it is really sad that we have to legislate. We have to because we must ensure that women have those rights, but I would prefer it if we did not have to. As part of my private Member’s Bill, I am trying to achieve a voluntary workplace pledge to ensure that employers support their employees who are going through fertility treatment. I wish that I did not need to do that, but I have to.
Returning to this brilliant piece of legislation, we have heard some excellent interventions and speeches from colleagues across the House. I am pleased that the Bill provides guarantees to women and their partners—there is an important clause in the Bill about partners during pregnancy. The Bill does not just cut off support at the birth of a child; vitally, women and their partners are supported during maternity leave, shared family leave and adoption leave.
I am a mother of two; my children are much older, in their late teens. I assure my hon. Friend the Member for West Bromwich West (Shaun Bailey) that we parents never stop being parents; we never stop worrying or trying to do the best we can. I am sure that one day he will have the honour of being a parent. I have gone through pregnancy and the stress of being pregnant. I had a miscarriage before I successfully had my first child and I know the stress of that second pregnancy, worrying whether it will be successful.
As I said, I worked for Bradford & Bingley and was very supported. That was an example of good practice. Before I was on maternity leave with my first child I was a public relations manager; when I came back, they promoted me to head of PR and gave me support. I worked three days a week, but I felt I could not do my job effectively in three days, and the other two days I was trying to balance being a mum of a young baby and work. It was my decision to go to my line manager and say that I wanted to work four days, so that I could do my job properly and be a full-time mum on the other days. It supported me in that, and crucially Bradford & Bingley realised how dedicated I was to my job and, even though I was working four days, it chose to pay me for full-time work. That is an example of an exemplary employer. Sadly, it was a victim of the banking crisis and I lost my job. But that was 15 years ago and an example of how employers can support women through pregnancy, and support mothers—or fathers—of young children.
Shaun Bailey
My hon. Friend is being incredibly generous in giving way, and it is always great to hear about personal experience. She represents the City of London as part of her constituency and we talked earlier in the debate about encouraging the brightest and the best, and those who have the right skillset. Does she agree that the Bill would ensure that the brightest and best—such as my hon. Friend, if I may say so—are able to stay in their roles in our financial centres and contribute to vital parts of our economy?
Nickie Aiken
My hon. Friend makes another good point. The City of London can be a beacon of exemplary employer-employee relations, and I hope and expect that the Bill will ensure that small, medium and large businesses show respect to working women who become pregnant and are raising a family and ensure that they have the support they deserve.
It is important to remember that going back to work after maternity leave can be a daunting step for many women. I was fortunate that I had the support of my employer, but many do not. That is why I welcome the extension of workplace support for women to six months after their maternity leave. A recent study found that it takes an average of six months to adjust back to the workplace fully, for multiple reasons. It may also be that women are coming back to work after a second or third child, and trying to balance a large family with work can be very difficult.
Going back to work can mean adjusting to new staff members who have been employed while someone has been on maternity leave, and they have to start establishing new working relationships. New practices or policies may have been introduced in the workplace. It is important that someone coming back to work after six, nine, 12 months or even longer is supported in understanding new policies or working with new employees.
Going back to work is difficult: I did it myself a couple of times. Particularly with a first child, it is difficult to understand how to balance parenthood with a job. Most working mums will know that we feel guilty when we are at work and when we are at home. We need to find a balance, and it is crucial to support women at that stage in their lives.
To go back to my point about adoption, if someone has tried to have a child for many years but failed to do so and then chosen to adopt, it is a very difficult time in their life. Having time at home without the threat of being made redundant is crucial, and that also applies to gay couples in the same position.
Too often, companies wishing to cut back will choose a woman who is pregnant or on maternity leave as an easy target, but I think it is agreed across the House that that is categorically wrong. No woman should ever be disadvantaged because she is having a child or has had a child. In 2018, the Government commissioned a report on women and work after childbirth, which found that women and men experienced a large divergence in their careers following the birth of a baby.
Fewer than 30% of women are in full-time work or self-employed three years after childbirth, compared to 90% of fathers. That is a clear example of how giving birth can affect a woman’s career chances. In the 21st century, it is a shocking statistic. I firmly believe that we must encourage women to feel empowered when they have a child, not anxious, not fearing that their job prospects are now weakened or that they may be at the top of the list to be made redundant.
There is no doubt that employers sometimes handle pregnancy and maternity poorly. I was appalled to read the finding of the Equality and Human Rights Commission that one in five pregnant women experience harassment at work owing to their pregnancy or flexible working requests. The commission also found that more than 50,000 women a year felt forced out of their jobs by poor treatment. We should note that this is also an issue of retention. My right hon. Friend the Member for Chipping Barnet (Theresa Villiers) referred to the need to retain women for productivity purposes. That is crucial: we cannot afford, in this country, to lose female talent on account of poor protection. It is also important to note at this time that the birth rate is falling, and we need women to have babies for the sake of our economy—not today, not tomorrow, but in 10, 20, 30 and 40 years’ time. The Bill is not just about the immediate; it is about our country’s future.
Among women with careers, we have seen the subsequent loss in earning and career progression that is termed the motherhood penalty. What kind of country do we want to be if we put a price on someone’s career because of motherhood and call it a penalty? It is not a country that I want to live in, and it is not a country in which I want my daughter—who is now 18—to grow up and start her career. It means that employers are losing female talent at a time when we need to retain talent, both male and female.
Further data reinforces the concern about gender inequality, with an emphasis on the penalty that maternity represents for women’s salary and careers. It is crucial that we provide viable solutions to rectify that, and the Bill is certainly one solution. My hon. Friend the Member for West Bromwich West (Shaun Bailey) mentioned the gender pay gap. The fact is that women can feel, and indeed are, penalised for having children, and it can affect their ongoing ability to increase their pay, move up the career ladder and enjoy the benefits that that brings.
Births are falling in this country. In the last 10 years we have seen a drop in the birth rate in England and Wales of nearly 16%.
Shaun Bailey
My hon. Friend has just mentioned the birth rate and the wider picture. I know that, since her days on the council, she has been passionate about building a strong sense of community in Westminster, but people in this area generally have careers and are not growing families. Many of them cannot have children, given the demographic. That will surely have an impact on communities, and the sense of community, in areas such as my hon. Friend’s in Westminster.
Nickie Aiken
My hon. Friend has made another excellent point. This is about ensuring that we encourage families to grow, and encourage women and gay couples either to have children or to adopt them, because it is families who create a community. As my hon. Friend says, in central London having families of all types—whether they are single households, older people or growing families—is crucial to community cohesion. Whether a woman is living in central London, the midlands, the north, Scotland or Wales—whatever part of the country she lives in—she must feel protected in having a child, so I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend.
The Government have said that family life and the economy will suffer unless workplace practices are brought into the 21st century. We need to take that and staff retention seriously. One of the last things that I did as the leader of Westminster City Council, before I came to this place, was to change our parental leave policy. I introduced a policy whereby there was full pay for 12 months for people who were either on maternity or paternity leave and shared parental leave. That sent the message to staff that they were so important to keeping the council going and that they were part of its success. In the year following that announcement, there was a huge increase in people having children in Westminster City Council, and that is a very good thing.
We simply cannot afford to let women be sidelined or penalised because they are pregnant and want to start a family. I believe that there is no greater or more important job in this world than raising a child, but the economic and emotional burden on parents can be equally as tremendous. We need to support our workforce, our women in the workforce and our families. For those reasons, I wholeheartedly welcome the Bill and commend it to the House.
The speech made by Jane Hunt, the Conservative MP for Loughborough, in the House of Commons on 21 October 2022.
Gosh—follow that! That was extremely moving from my hon. Friend the Member for West Bromwich West (Shaun Bailey). I am grateful to him for his articulation of his experience, which was superb.
I very much thank the hon. and gallant Member for Barnsley Central (Dan Jarvis) for introducing this important Bill, which will ensure better protections for women and families with new babies. It was a pleasure to work with him, albeit briefly, to help drive this Bill forward in my former role as the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, and I would like to emphasise my continued full support for it.
The hon. Member talked about being proud of this Bill, and I feel sure he is quite right to be so. I certainly feel proud to have been involved. The current Minister has done a huge amount of work to support it, as indeed did the previous Minister, my hon. Friend the Member for Sutton and Cheam (Paul Scully). He did a great deal of work on this, and also on many other Bills, which I will refer to a bit later. What we are looking at in the Bill is part of a matrix of workers’ rights, and it is right, good and proper that we are doing so.
It is shocking that, in 2022, new parents—mothers in particular—are still being forced out of their jobs through either dismissal or compulsory redundancy when others in the workplace do not face that, or are being treated so poorly that they feel they have no choice but to leave. A 2020 survey by Pregnant Then Screwed found that 11.2% of women on maternity leave had been made redundant, or expected to be made redundant, and 60.7% of them believed that their maternity leave was a factor in the decision. A more recent 2021 survey found that 20% of mothers have experienced discrimination from an employer.
I turn to the background to the Bill. Research published in 2016 commissioned by the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills and the Equality and Human Rights Commission found that about one in nine mothers—11%—reported that they were either dismissed, made redundant or treated poorly and therefore had to leave their job. The publication of that research was followed by a Women and Equalities Committee inquiry and report on pregnancy and maternity discrimination in August 2016. One of its key findings was that mothers returning from maternity leave still faced discrimination. It therefore recommended that the Government should take steps to provide
“additional protection from redundancy for new and expectant mothers”.
It recommended that enhanced protections should apply throughout pregnancy and for six months after a woman’s return to work.
The Government published their response to the report in 2017. They acknowledged the scale of pregnancy and maternity discrimination experienced by new and expectant mothers and committed to
“consider further and bring forward proposals to ensure that the protections in place for those who are pregnant or returning from maternity leave are sufficient.”
The Committee said:
“We are persuaded that additional protection from redundancy for new and expectant mothers is required. The Government should implement a system similar to that used in Germany—
that was referred to earlier—
“under which such women can be made redundant only in specified circumstances. This protection should apply throughout pregnancy and maternity leave and for six months afterwards. The Government should implement this change within the next two years.”
In January 2019, the Government published a consultation seeking views on extending current redundancy protections for pregnant women and new parents. It recommended that the Government extend the current redundancy protection afforded to women during maternity leave under the Maternity and Paternity Leave etc. Regulations 1999 to cover a woman’s pregnancy and a period of up to six months after returning to work. The consultation also acknowledged that those returning from forms of leave comparable to maternity leave may have been away from work for long periods and therefore might similarly face discrimination or be prone to less favourable treatment.
The Government response, published in July 2019, made two commitments: to extend the redundancy protection period to include pregnancy and six months after a new mother has returned to work; and to provide the same enhanced protections to those returning from adoption leave and, crucially, shared parental leave.
It is unacceptable that anyone should be penalised for deciding to have a family. I welcome the fact that the Government have acknowledged the scale of pregnancy and maternity discrimination experienced by new and expectant mothers. Given the scale of the problem, it is clear that current legislation does not go far enough to protect new parents. We have talked about that in earlier speeches and interventions. The Bill caters for pregnant women working in all types of employment. There are women throughout the whole of the workplace, and all such people will benefit from the Bill.
I am particularly grateful that the Bill covers those on adoption leave and shared parental leave. The Bill dovetails wonderfully with the Neonatal Care (Leave and Pay) Bill introduced in July by the Scottish National party hon. Member for Cumbernauld, Kilsyth and Kirkintilloch East (Stuart C. McDonald), working closely with the Government and BEIS, as well as with the Fertility Treatment (Employment Rights) Bill from my hon. Friend the Member for Cities of London and Westminster (Nickie Aiken), which has yet to have its Second Reading, and the shared parental leave Bill that we have discussed. There is a matrix being formed of support and business guidance to ensure that businesses are helped to do the right thing to support their employees, women and parents. There should be no barrier to any parent having the opportunity to get to know their child and bond with them at the earliest opportunity.
I welcome the fact that in 2019 the Government consulted on the proposals to extend redundancy protections for pregnant women and new parents. The majority of responses showed support for measures to extend the redundancy protection period once a new mother had returned to work, and to extend protections to adoption and shared parental leave. That consultation was undertaken in January 2019 and BEIS reported
“that 6 months would be an adequate period of ‘return to work’ for redundancy protection purposes”,
and
“that protection should be extended to parents who have taken adoption leave and shared parental leave”,
which I think is crucial.
The Government responded to the consultation on 22 July 2019, including a series of commitments to increasing redundancy protections in this area, first to
“ensure the redundancy protection period applies from the point the employee informs the employer that she is pregnant, whether orally or in writing;”
secondly, to
“extend the redundancy protection period for six months once a new mother has returned to work. We expect that this period will start immediately once maternity leave is finished;”
thirdly, to
“extend redundancy protection into a period of return to work for those taking adoption leave following the same approach as the extended protection being provided for those returning from maternity leave—it will be for six months;”,
and fourthly, to
“extend redundancy protection into a period of return to work for those taking shared parental leave, taking account of the following key principles and issues: the key objective of this policy is to help protect pregnant women and new mothers from discrimination; the practical and legal differences between shared parental leave and maternity leave mean that it will require a different approach; the period of extended protection should be proportionate to the amount of leave and the threat of discrimination; a mother should be no worse off if she curtails her maternity leave and then takes a period of Shared Parental Leave; the solution should not create any disincentives to take Shared Parental Leave”.
The Bill before us would enact those crucial changes and clearly has the backing of many. I recognise the cross-party agreement we have seen across the House; in my opinion, we are at our best when we have that. The Bill is a welcome extension of the framework of workers’ rights in general and crucially allows family leave to be included in legislation. The German model is a good one, but I believe we must reach a compromise between the needs of businesses and the needs of families and pregnant mothers.
Shaun Bailey
Looking at other models and the broader matrix my hon. Friend talks about, does she also believe that the legislative framework we are trying to bring in needs to be an evolving one? The likelihood is that we will need secondary legislation or even further primary legislation, but as part of that we must ensure that the framework continues to evolve and adapt as the workplace landscape changes.
Jane Hunt
I could not agree more with my hon. Friend. This Bill provides a framework that the Secretary of State can adapt to meet future needs for both pregnant women and those on adoption or shared parental leave. It sets up a matrix that can be filled as required.
In conclusion, I welcome this Bill. I truly believe it is something we should do and are able to do. I feel that the Minister will do a wonderful job in bringing this all together and I wholeheartedly thank the hon. Member for Barnsley Central for bringing the Bill forward.