Tag: Rob Butler

The speech made by Rob Butler, the Conservative MP for Aylesbury, in the House of Commons on 3 March 2023.

It is a great pleasure to speak in this debate. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Buckingham (Greg Smith), my constituency neighbour, on introducing this important Bill, to which I am pleased to have contributed in Committee. It will be a fitting birthday present for him if it passes Third Reading today.

The Bill sets out much-needed changes that are straightforward, practical and will, as my hon. Friend says, no doubt help to reduce rural crime. From visiting farms in my constituency, I know how much the theft of machinery concerns farmers and the increasing impact it has had over the past few years. Indeed, the Countryside Alliance’s 2022 rural crime survey, which had more than 2,000 responses, underlines the extent of the problem, with 15% of respondents reporting having experienced the theft of agricultural machinery in that one year alone. Machinery theft was second only to fly-tipping.

As my hon. Friend says, it is no exaggeration to say that farmers depend on their machinery for their livelihood. Deprived of that equipment, farmers are simply unable to work as efficiently, and their ability to generate revenue is diminished. Not only that, but there is the costly, slow and sometimes stressful process of replacing the stolen machinery. It is crucial that farmers are given support to deter criminals from stealing their machinery and, in particular, the all-terrain vehicles specified in this Bill. It is crucial that farmers are given support to deter criminals from stealing their machinery and, in particular, the all-terrain vehicles specified in the Bill.

It is worth noting that demand for ATVs has grown recently at a rate that has outstripped the readily available supply. That, of course, increases the incentive for those with criminal intent, because they know they will be able to sell what they steal. The National Farmers Union has reported that members are having to wait three to six months to obtain one of these vehicles. That means the vehicles are especially lucrative because not only are they highly sought-after and easily portable, but there is a ready resale market in this country and, indeed, abroad. NFU Mutual’s annual rural crime survey stated that quad bike and ATV theft amounted to £2.2 million in 2021, which is not an insignificant sum.

Most of us will know from our own experience with cars that immobilisers are a tried and tested deterrent. When affixed to ATVs, they make them more secure. Their value is clear: since 1992, all new cars in the UK have been built with an immobiliser and, in the following 30 years, vehicle theft plummeted by an incredible 43%. While other factors may have contributed, data produced by the Home Office demonstrated a strong correlation between the increased fitting of immobilisers and the reduction in stolen vehicles. In the light of that, the standardised fitting of these devices on all new-build ATVs and the retrofitting of them to other vehicles prior to sale could prove to be a relatively cheap and highly effective approach.

My hon. Friend the Member for Buckingham has had the foresight in his Bill to consider not only the prevention of theft, but, where that sadly fails, the recovery of ATVs that have been stolen. The forensic marking he described should enable police forces to identify the ATVs they recover and more easily return them to their rightful owners. Furthermore, requiring sellers to record details of the sale, including information about the vehicle and the buyer, is key to the success of the Bill’s aims and provides an appropriate audit trail.

I am pleased to hear that my right hon. Friend the Policing Minister is considering extending the Bill’s provisions, as and when appropriate, to go beyond ATVs and include other equipment and commercial tools—a subject that was much discussed in Committee. Tool theft regularly afflicts an array of trades beyond farming, such as roofers, electricians and plumbers. Presently, the second-hand tool market is unregulated. That means that sellers have no obligation to prove the origin of their items or even to evidence the original purchase. It has been argued quite understandably that this encourages and facilitates the theft of tools. As with farmers, not only is the loss of equipment an immediate financial loss for tradespeople; it prevents them from working and can disrupt the schedule of their building projects, causing frustration to them and their customers.

The help that my hon. Friend’s Bill provides is necessary and timely. It is not right that security is such a significant concern for many farmers. The provision of immobilisers, forensic marking and recording of the sale of ATVs will reduce the likelihood that they will fall victim to this crime, which, as I have outlined, has an impact well beyond the immediate loss of the vehicle. I applaud my hon. Friend for the work he has done. I am absolutely confident that farmers in my constituency, as well as his, and across the entire country would benefit from this legislation. I look forward to his Bill making its way on to the statute book as soon as possible.

The parliamentary question asked by Rob Butler, the Conservative MP for Aylesbury, in the House of Commons on 10 January 2023.

Rob Butler (Aylesbury) (Con)

What steps his Department is taking to help offenders (a) desist and (b) find employment.

John Penrose (Weston-super-Mare) (Con)

What assessment he has made of the effectiveness of HM Prison and Probation Service-commissioned programmes on the (a) rehabilitation and (b) employment-readiness of offenders.

The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice (Dominic Raab)

The proportion of persons released from custody employed at six months from their release rose by almost two thirds over the last year, and we are delivering the further measures set out in our White Paper because we know this has a huge impact in cutting reoffending.

Rob Butler

I thank the Secretary of State for his answer. Key to reducing reoffending is prisoners getting jobs when they are released from custody, and key to prisoners getting jobs is having employers that are willing to take on ex-prisoners, who often prove to be extremely diligent and conscientious workers. What progress are my right hon. Friend’s Department and HMPPS making to encourage more employers, including other Government Departments, to recruit ex-prisoners and so contribute to cutting crime?

Dominic Raab

I thank my hon. Friend, who has been a doughty campaigner on this issue. He is right about the Government, who are a significant employer and can show a lead. I can tell him that we have committed to recruiting more prison leavers to civil service roles, with nearly 200 offered or filled across Government. I am pleased to say that, in the Ministry of Justice, we have offered or filled almost 100 of those roles—not that I am competitive.

John Penrose

It is great to hear that more offenders are finding jobs after being released. Will the Secretary of State undertake to publish the outcomes and success rates of all publicly commissioned programmes to prepare offenders for work, together with an independent evaluation of their effectiveness and value for money from the evaluation task force, so everyone can learn what works and what does not, taxpayers can see whether they are getting value for money, and ever more offenders can get a second chance to put their lives back on track?

Dominic Raab

I thank my hon. Friend, who is absolutely right to focus on the data. We are doing this because it gives offenders a chance to turn their lives around, but we also know that getting offenders into work can cut reoffending by up to 9 percentage points, which keeps our streets safer. We publish a range of data—there is the justice data lab, and we review international evidence—and we will certainly publish as much as we can on the Government’s website so the analysis he talks about can take place.

Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)

But the Secretary of State must know that staff shortages in the probation service are leading to dangerously high levels of workload for the existing staff, who are then leaving in droves, creating a vicious circle against rehabilitation, putting staff at risk and also potentially the public. It has led to the chief inspector of the probation service saying his service is in crisis mode. What is the Secretary of State going to do to break this vicious circle?

Dominic Raab

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right that the people who work in the prison and probation services are critical to driving down reoffending. We have an independent pay review body that looks at these things, which we have supported and engaged with precisely to make sure we get the balance right. We have increased funding for the probation service by an additional £155 million a year to help recruitment, and the reforms we have introduced since 2010 are working. We have reduced the overall reoffending rate from 31% under Labour to 25.6% under this Government.

Mr Speaker

I call the shadow Minister.

Ellie Reeves (Lewisham West and Penge) (Lab)

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

To protect the public, prisons must rehabilitate as well as punish, but under the Conservatives they have become colleges of crime: offenders going in clean but leaving as drug addicts; enrolment in rehabilitation programmes down nearly 90%; and the percentage of prisoners released with jobs to go to halved since 2010. When will the Government finally get a grip, fix our broken prison system, and keep the public safe?

Dominic Raab

I am afraid I do not accept that litany of spin. The fact is that crime—[Interruption.] No, I will tell the hon. Lady what the facts are. Excluding fraud and computer misuse, crime has been slashed by more than half since Labour left office, violent crime is down by half, and reoffending is five percentage points lower than when Labour left office. On employment, for offenders leaving prison within six months there has been an increase in one year alone since I have been in the job by two thirds. We are restless to go further. We have appointed all the chairs to the employment advisory boards in 92 prisons, we have appointed 66 out of 92 prison employment hubs, and we have appointed 91 of our 92 prison employment lead roles, which are all going to get offenders into work and drive down reoffending.

The speech made by Rob Butler, the Conservative MP for Aylesbury, in the House of Commons on 23 February 2021.

I beg to move,

That leave be given to bring in a Bill to provide that persons charged with a criminal offence having been aged under 18 at the time of the alleged offence are subject to the jurisdiction of the youth court and to youth sentencing provisions; and for connected purposes.

I should declare at the outset that prior to my election I was a magistrate in both adult and youth courts, a member of the Youth Justice Board, a non-executive director of Her Majesty’s Prison and Probation Service and a member of the Sentencing Council.

Justice delayed is justice denied. I submit that that is even more starkly so in the case of child offenders.

The UN convention on the rights of the child states:

“Child justice systems should also extend protection to children who were below the age of 18 at the time of the commission of the offence but who turn 18 during the trial or sentencing process.”

My Bill seeks to ensure that that becomes the case in England and Wales. At the moment, the justice system treats a defendant according to their age on the date they first appear in court and enter a plea. The consequence of this is that if someone commits an offence aged 15, 16 or 17, but do not get to court until after their 18th birthday, they are treated as an adult. That immediately affects both the type of court that deals with them and the range of sentences available. But the repercussions do not stop there, because there can be an impact on the chance of rehabilitation and the likelihood of getting a job, with the prospect of forever having to declare a mistake from the past. It is no exaggeration to say that the consequences can last a lifetime, because in our justice system there is a cliff edge when people reach their 18th birthday, and it is a very steep cliff.

A child defendant under the age of 18 in England and Wales will appear before a youth court, which has specially trained magistrates and judges. They know how to interpret a young person’s behaviour, and they speak directly to the children in front of them, asking them why they committed the offence and ensuring they understand its consequences. Children appearing in the youth court are supported by the youth offending service—expert, multidisciplinary teams based in local authorities. Perhaps most significantly, in the youth court, young people can be sentenced to a referral order, which focuses on rehabilitation and restorative justice, and is overseen by the youth offending team. Once the referral order is completed, the offence is immediately spent, meaning that the young person does not carry a criminal record. Those procedures exist because the youth justice system has an overarching aim, set down in legislation, to prevent reoffending, and courts must therefore make that their priority. It should go without saying that reducing reoffending means there will be far fewer victims of crime, and that must surely be welcomed by all.

All that changes if a young person turns 18 even a day before their case gets to court. There is no special training for the judiciary, no dedicated support from the youth offending service, no bespoke sentence and no priority on reducing reoffending. What is more, harsher criminal record and disclosure requirements for adults further decrease employment prospects and risk preventing people from moving on with their lives, and yet this is something over which the young person has absolutely no control.

The main reason that children turn 18 before going to court is the delay in the system—in either the police investigation or the court listing process. Whether a particular individual youth suffers a delay is a matter of chance. Indeed, in our current system there is a postcode lottery as to whether someone is treated as a child or an adult, as different police forces and different courts can take widely varying times investigating or listing cases. Two 17-year-olds with exactly the same birthday could commit exactly the same crime, on exactly the same day, in different parts of the country, but find themselves treated entirely differently according to how quickly their case comes to court. There seems to be no logic, common sense or fairness in that.

The problem is significant. The Youth Justice Legal Centre says that approximately 20% of all the calls to its helpline are about delays to cases where young people are turning 18. Although there are no precise official figures for how many young people are caught in this trap, it has previously been suggested that 2% to 3% of proven offences are committed by children who turn 18 before their conviction. That translated into 1,400 for the year ending March 2018, and the problem has been exacerbated more recently, both by changes in police procedure and by the coronavirus pandemic.

First, the growing use by police of release under investigation has resulted in delays to charging decisions, with the average number of days between an offence and charge for youth cases increasing by 78% in the past nine years. There has also been an increase in the delay from charge to the first court listing by a further 61%. Indeed, it can easily take a year before the first court appearance, and even longer in the case of some serious offences. Secondly, covid-19 has lengthened delays throughout the whole court system. There is consequently a particularly worrying impact on the increasing number of young people who will have their 18th birthday before their first court appearance. The Select Committee on Justice, of which I am a member, highlighted this in a recent report on the impact of covid on the courts. The changes proposed in my Bill are therefore needed, and they are needed now.

Some people may ask why we should care, when we are, after all, talking about criminals. What is crucially important is the fact that people do not magically become an adult at the stroke of midnight on their 18th birthday. Indeed, it is now widely acknowledged and accepted, including by the Ministry of Justice, that young people’s neurological development continues well into their 20s. Importantly, that has a substantial impact on behaviours linked to offending, such as impulse control, empathy and understanding the implications of actions. The code for Crown prosecutors already recognises that, and the National Police Chiefs’ Council lead for children and young people has emphasised the importance of diversionary and preventive measures. That entirely chimes with the approach taken by the youth court and by youth offending teams, but not by the adult justice system.

The justice system needs to tackle offending behaviour according to a person’s culpability, maturity and potential for rehabilitation. That is why we should care. And there is precedence for criminal justice consequences to flow from the date an offence is committed. Examples include the sentence of detention at Her Majesty’s pleasure and certain mandatory minimum sentences under the Firearms Acts and the Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006. What is more, perhaps rather ironically, the victim surcharge on an offender is applied according to the age at which they committed the offence, not the age at which they are sentenced or first appeared in court.

I should briefly set out examples of what the Bill would not mean. It would not mean that somebody who was 18 or over when sentenced would go to a custodial establishment for under-18s. Indeed, it is already the case that a young person serving a custodial sentence will be transferred to the adult estate on or soon after their 18th birthday. And it would not mean that someone who committed a crime at 17 but was only identified as the perpetrator when they were very much older, say at 30, would physically attend the youth court. There would be an upper age limit in the early 20s.

There is a very strong consensus in favour of the changes I have proposed today. On the frontline, the Association of Youth Offending Team Managers wants to see exactly those measures introduced. The Magistrates Association last year passed a motion in support of keeping such cases in the youth court, with 96% in favour. The Alliance for Youth Justice, which brings together more than 70 organisations, believes that the measures in the Bill would allow for fairer, more equitable and age-appropriate justice. The Bill is supported by T2A, Transition to Adulthood. My proposals are also endorsed by academic and legal experts, including the National Association for Youth Justice, Justice for Kids Law, and the Youth Justice Legal Centre. The Justice Committee has called for such changes, and the Youth Justice Board itself backs these measures. The YJB’s chair, Keith Fraser, is a former police superintendent, who was himself assaulted by a teenager when he was a serving officer, but he believes it is wrong that someone who commits an offence as a child then gets treated as an adult by the system. The Children’s Commissioner wants to see these changes. Finally, my Bill has cross-party support in this House, for which I am very grateful.

If my Bill succeeds, a young person who commits an offence before their 18th birthday will be subject to the youth court and to youth sentencing provisions. That would be a relatively simple change to make in legislation. In many respects, it does no more than correct an anomaly, but for those affected its impact would be profound. It would enable young people to put their mistakes behind them and make a constructive contribution to society. It would put more emphasis on preventing reoffending. It would mean a fairer system; it would mean a more just system.

Question put and agreed to.

Ordered,

That Rob Butler, Sir Robert Neill, Maria Eagle, Jeremy Wright, Edward Timpson, Andrew Selous, Crispin Blunt, Dan Jarvis, Sarah Champion, Danny Kruger and Sally-Ann Hart present the Bill.